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Chapters 1-5

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In these chapters we're provided with a picture of Christopher McCandless as he eschews (deliberately avoids) gifts (giving or receiving), money, and ownership of extra.  He's trying to create a life for himself that is very different from the life and values he was raised with.

Let's think about connecting to Christopher McCandless (and Alexander Supertramp, his alter ego) and answer the following:

Discuss a part of conventional (everyday) society that you'd like to give up--(This can be small or large. Some of the smallest things might prove to be more difficult.)

What would be the benefits? What would be the drawbacks?

Could you give it up if you lived in the same setting you do now? Or would you have to go it alone like McCandless does not to fall back into it? 

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If I could get rid of anything in society it would be the dependency on electronic devices. I feel like people are always on their phones rather than living in the moment, myself included. I wouldn't be able to give up my phone if others didn't, because it's my way of communicating and keeping up with everyone. Even for school, laptops make it easy to stay on pace if I miss a day or have to do some work at home. All the information we could ever need is easily assessable at our fingertips. I feel like if we went back to how it used to be I would be a lot happier. Once people were home from school they didn't have to worry about anything to do with it the next day. Children would always be outside, not sitting on their phones scrolling. If I were to give up my phone I would definitely have to have everyone else in my life do it. It's not only in my personal life as mentioned when I work we take orders electronically and it's how we communicate and keep track of if they've paid, and received their orders. As much as I would like to cold turkey quit electronic usage I can't for the reasons listed above.   

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I definitely agree with your stance on electronic dependency. School and society really make it almost impossible to go without these devices, because it would be a huge disadvantage to anyone who would try. It would almost have to be an all-or-nothing kind of thing. But I do agree, I think life would be a little less stressful, and we would even be more susceptible to the exploration of hobbies and interests. However, I do love the communication and innovation that technology brings us. It is crazy what electronic devices can do nowadays compared to the past. I mean, my grandmother went until 2018 before getting a cellphone and was always curious about things like, "how would she call for help if she needed it?" "how do you always know the time or even connect with friends?". Devices and technology I think have made us more well-rounded and informed. It has brought to light things we never would have known without it, whether that be good or not. It allows us to instantly gain information in mass amounts. I think it is something that we often take for granted, but can also be harmful. All of the information that I have in my brain, about how much the world sucks, can tend to stress me out about things I have no personal control over. But instantly talking with my friends across the country is a really great plus. 

 

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I can definitely relate to your post. I could not work at a Mcdonald's and be as fast-paced if we didn't have the technology that we do today. I also find myself becoming dependent on electronics. I use my phone every day. Last Saturday my screen time was at 4 hours and 38 minutes. I could have done so many things in that four hours, rather than being on TikTok and Snapchat. I feel like most of America has this problem but no one talks about how horrible it is because it provides them with entertainment. How often are you on your phone? Does that affect your day as substantially as mine? 

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If I could get rid of anything in Society it would be social media posts. I feel that social media posts are constantly creating unnecessary hate and arguing when there is no point or satisfaction gained from it. There is nothing to gain from arguing with a person over twitter about their political views because everyone has their views and fighting about it is not very productive for either side. I also feel that social media posts take away from the moment that people are living in. Posting about your vacation is good and all but you're taking time out of the moment to post on your social media accounts instead of enjoying what's around you. It is nice to be able to have a way to share your experience with others but I feel that you should not take the time away from your moment to upload a photo for likes and views. The moments we have a sparse so I feel that they should not be wasted by spending time in the moment posting a picture for your followers to see then scroll past seconds later. 

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Social media is definitely something that has a choke hold on many people (me included.) And i share your sentiment with how people upload things for views and likes, how it can take away the moment your in now just for these little insignificant things. Especially the part where you mention that people will see your post, but scroll past it only seconds later. A thing that lots of people dont think about, just the attention their getting, and not the fact that people probably don't even care that you posted something.

This is similar to what I was thinking to post, but I couldn't word it. I love the take of how people should live in the moment, I feel this way as well. Ive definitely fallen victim to social media, being obsessed and unable to give up social media. When something seems picture perfect or fun, I fins myself reaching for my phone to take a picture, so I could remember this event, or send it to other people. Though I realize i'll almost never visit those pictures again. 

While I think a lot of people feel the same way we do, I feel like theres a broad sense of people who would never give up social media, even if everyone else did. I think there are so many people obsessed with the attention they get from it, that they would never let up, never "live their life" and instead post everything they do on social media. Not even to capture their memories, but like I said before, for the attention they get.

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I agree with you that is is unlikely that others will not give up on using social media because it has become so addictive. The attention of getting likes and follows can cause others to be obsessed with the small feeling of fame they receive from a simple click of a button. I'm glad that you brought up the point that people post more for the urge to feel popular than to capture the moments of their lives. 

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Although I don't believe I would ever be able to totally give up social media (as I have become so accustomed to it) I definitely see the intentions of your post. Social media has so many flaws that you don't always realized when you're just scrolling through a feed. But when somebody brings it light... it becomes clearer. I may not always notice the effects that social media is having on me... but at times I find myself enthralled with everyone else's seemingly "perfect" life, that I can lose sight of my own. I get caught up comparing my myself and the way I look to social media influencers, comparing my opinions to the opinions of others, and comparing my own relationships in life to those of others. So I totally understand that social media has so many negative effects. When you bring people actually arguing and bombarding other people's lives on social media... that's a whole different story! To touch on your point though about not taking in moments at times... some feel that social media, posting are great ways to capture moments that you never want to forget, or want to be able to look back on. What are your thought on this type of posting?

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If I could get rid of one thing, I think it would be extreme automation and consumer use AI. I think the use of tools like Chat GBT, AI art programs, virtual assistants, etc. only prioritize machines and content over people. I think for content and creation to truly matter (whether that be recipes, art, stories, etc.) they have to be made and thought of by a human. I think a world without these things could exist and, for the most part, I actively avoid using prompt programs and other things, along with supporting people who choose to do the same. AI and automation has some places that it would be missed (the McDonald’s kiosks are amazing and Alexas great to put on a song for you), but I think that we would be better as a society if we valued human creation more than we do quick and easy creation. I think it would take some training for me to grow fully content without the excessive help of machines, but I also think I could be better off for it.

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I agree with you on how you think that tools like AI chatbots, art programs, and virtual assistants are overused. People depend on these things now on a daily, and if they were taken away life wouldn't be the same. It's so easy just to click a button rather than do the work by hand.

The extent that these things are used on a daily exceeds even what you've mentioned above. We're so dependent upon it that we don't even realize it. Just take a moment to think about all the ways you use AI on a daily and don't even second guess it, here's a link with some examples, https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2019/12/16/the-10-best-examples-of-how-ai-is-already-used-in-our-everyday-life/?sh=9c70a351171f . I use google maps all the time to figure out where I'm going. Every time I go on my phone it scans my face! Back even thirty years ago people would've never thought technology was going to get as far as it has.  

 

With that being said, I wonder where the world would be right now if we'd never created AI. Would we have just created something else to always be busy with? Or would we still be how we were back in the 1950s? I guess we'll never have an answer for that. Do you have any ideas on how the world would be today, even if we still had AI but were less dependent on it? Or if we suddenly lost all AI? 

 

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I appreciate how you mention AI automation "that will be missed", like Alexas and Kiosks. Those are things when talking about AI creation or creative AI, that I never would of thought of. I love how this is mentioned, how you show the perspective that even some would be missed by you, but still keep that it's clear you would rather not have any at all.

Ive seen so many AI made creations, from art to writing. More or less, it displeases me when I see it. And I understand how frustrating these things are, as I like making art myself. Ive seen people take pictures of human made art, and put it in AI to "make something new." It frustrates me to no end, that these people are doing this for themselves, and not even given permission to use these pieces of work. Human made things are much more emotionally connected, we as a species can connect ourselves to other peoples works, see ourselves in them. But as soon as we have the knowledge that it's made by AI, those feelings dissipate. And I always think, quality over quantity.

There are definitely people who don't have the same perspective, they care about having things for themselves, making things with no effort. And they disregard the people who actually care about what they do, put time, effort, love and soul into their works. But it feels like they can be discredited, when someone can easily make something they see as "similar" with little to no effort because of AI. 

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Yes! I know you're an artist, so you'd definitely understand this perspective more than most, but AI art feels like almost an insult to artists. Artistry of any kind (especially digital art, which is normally what is stolen to create AI illustrations) takes years of dedication and practice, this you know, and oftentimes people selfishly take the work and effort of these artists to make corporate art that is, at it's core, fake. Art involves creativity, perspective, experience, all things that AI can't ever have.

It's true that it's hard (impossible, sometimes) to appreciate AI art because you are aware that there were no choices really made. Instead, 1000s of choices taken from other artists that were melded into an amalgamation that is literally the most middle of the road possible.

Talking on the selfishness you mentioned, I've had personal experiences of people who post art and claim it as their own, when it's actual AI stolen art. This is especially hurtful because you know the person who prompted the AI understands the meaning and effort of art and that it deserves recognition, but they don't respect artists enough to let their original art get appreciation, and instead use it and AI to try and take advantage of them.

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This may be sort of a simple subject, but if I could get rid of one part of conventional society, it would be the dependency or desire to drink alcohol. This is the way I feel. Now in moderation I believe that alcohol doesn't always lead to problems, but I'm nearly positive that it doesn't lead to anything good. I can't attest to the upside of drinking because I've never done it... But what I know is that the short-term highs of getting a buzz or feeling good, aren't worth the long term damage of drunk driving, alcohol abuse, and not being in a present state of mind. The benefits are clear! Those issues would never have to be dealt with, and nobody would have to deal with the effects of alcohol consumption, poisoning, or abuse. I guess a downside could be that there would be less on the menu to drink at social gatherings or events. I could easily give it up as I don't drink. And quite frankly, I don't really pay attention to anyone else who may choose to drink or not drink. It the consumption of alcohol hasn't proven to have a direct effect on me, so I would say I can live in this environment at peace. I don't need to go rogue.

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I find the topic you choose interesting and I agree with your statement about how alcohol tends to not lead to anything good. The amount of accidents caused by alcohol consumption is and driving is far too high so I am glad that you brought the piece up in your writing. I agree with you that the issues of drunk driving incidents or any sort of alcohol abuse could be lessened if we as a society became more aware of the dangers that alcohol can cause.

A few family members of mine have suffered from having an addiction to drinking but they have turned their lives around since then. I cannot imagine who they would be today or what their lives would be like if they had not turned their decisions around and continued to feed their addiction. They are very important people in my lives and I would hate to see them face that road of addiction again. Many others battle addiction or know others who are struggling with alcohol addiction so I am glad that you wrote about this topic because it is relatable for others and I feel like it is not expressed enough sometimes.

Is there anyways we as a society could help limit the spread of alcohol addiction? Are there ways we can help support others that are battling their addiction that expand beyond AA meetings?

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I agree with your post. I have had some people I know fall ill to alcoholism and it's scary. I also agree with what you said about moderation. Alcohol in moderation isn't technically a bad thing, however, it still adds risk. I never tried alcohol so I can't say anything about how it makes you feel, not to mention I never want to try alcohol simply because of the repercussions. I think the world would definitely be better off without alcohol. There wouldn't be any unnecessary deaths because of it. Everyone would simply be better off. Do you know anyone who has fallen into alcoholism? How has that affected you or your view on alcohol/drugs?

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Although I don't know anyone personally that has fallen to alcoholism, I know of someone that is currently struggling with it. Although it doesn't have a direct effect on my, I empathize for the other people that are effected in that person's life. Family, friends, acquaintances, it's just sad to see. And they are currently in rehab to deal with their addiction which is great! But you never really want to see anyone get to that point.

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I definitely understand the desire to leave alcohol and people's dependency on it. As you said, there doesn't seem to be any benefits for anyone who doesn't get involved in drinking culture: and I think that's were it gets bad. Because of drinking and bar culture, people feel expected or obligated to drink in adulthood. 

I empathize with the frustration with all the risks that come with alcohol. Alcoholism causes many terrible things like domestic abuse, drunk driving, assault, death, etc. and it doesn't feel like anything is worth losing your family or life. 

Do you think that a change in drinking culture would help fix the problems caused by alcoholism? Do you think that things like prohibition laws would even make a difference or would we need to create a complete societal upheaval of the culture around alcohol?

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Purely for personal reasons, I would want to get rid of machines that automatically make food. For example one that can make cookies with limited human help, not an oven that is needed for certain foods to bake or cook (like ovens in homes.) I know this would cause many things to happen if they were to suddenly disappear. Lots of food products off the shelves- and much outrage from people who buy these foods because they like them, or for convenience ect. But this is just sort of a preference. Or rather, if these machine made products could be replaced by man made ones (homemade cookies, doughnuts, pastries, ect) I just think it would be so much better. And while so much of our food supply comes from the machines working, this is just sort of a "if I could have anything I want," scenario. Since I love baking and cooking, I love my moms cooking, imagining homemade food like this on shelves to buy, just gives me a sort of comfort, even with just the knowledge that they were homemade. Like I said, this isnt really plausible at all, since machines can work many times faster than a human can. But a lot of people enjoy cooking and baking, and with knowing all of the ingredients in these foods, or how it was made, it can be a comforting feeling. Knowing foods were made with the best intention in mind, and with love and respect. (a weird thing to say about food, but yknow) Homemade > Machine made

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I love the way that you incorporated your own personal piece about your love of baking and your mom's cooking into your piece to explain why you would want to get rid of machine made food. I also agree with you that it would be a bit slower if human's produce all of the food products than machines but the overall consideration and time that was put into preparing the food would be better in my opinion. 

My grandma's put so much love and care into their cooking and I can always tell that they put their everything into their cooking. Your post made me think about how I need to appreciate the time they spend cooking for my family because they took their time and effort into creating a meal for us instead of just buying all machine made food products from the store. There is just something better about a homemade food compared to food that is made by machines.

I wonder if it would be plausible to actually have only humans make food instead of machines. Do you prefer homemade foods or store bought foods? Why is food made by people or family much more comforting compared to a machine?

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This one is honestly so wholesome and I love it. 

Food automation is an interesting and semi-complex topic because you think about all the ways it's helped and hurt society. I think food automation is great because it means that more food is made more quickly, and, usually, without less waste. This means more people get fed and there's cheaper food available for people. The problem with machines that make food though is the price many people have to pay. Low income families often face obesity rates much higher than those who have more income available for food because companies that make cheap, quick food make their money from using things like corn syrup, preservatives, sodium and fat to cheapen their products but also to get people addicted to flavors and textures that aren't natural or "desirable" (since when did human society collectively agree vegetables are gross?).

I think food automation is a gift, but I also think people take advantage of the technology to make money, not necessarily to help people or make a product that provides ease, satisfaction and health to their customers. I don't know if you thought of any of this, and I understand just liking homemade foods better (homemade mac n' cheese can not be duplicated), but I like that you said intention was also important. Back in the day, food was solely produces by humans, and they didn't seem to have any problems (sure, a bunch of them starved to death, but half their population had the plague and stuff so they probably weren't working at max proficiency). Do you think it would be possible to slowly wane off foods that are processed by machines? 

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This was exactly what I was thinking, premade food can be so much more accessible to some people, since much of it can be cheap and affordable. Personally, I dont think going back to only homemade food is possible, since I think so many of us rely on it for a lot, even when we don't think about it. Like I said this was just sort of an idea that sprang in my head, and would be almost a dream, since I dont think this would be possible without, like you said from the past, people starving to death, or not being able to afford it, or not enough food supply. And there would definitely be many people who don't know how to cook, or refuse to, so i doubt there would be enough food supply for everyone in the world, or if it would even be able to get to everyone. And the last thing I wanted to respond (to your response) is the fact that you talk about how awful some of these premade foods can be, with additives and bad ingredients, that can make people addicted. I think so many people wouldn't willingly give these up, since they're so convenient and easy. But I also think there are many people who need these foods since it can be more affordable then making homemade meals. So I think having pre made food is better than if we only had hommemade. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford and make hommemade food, so If i want homemade food, I should just make it myself.

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You bring up an interesting idea. There' s a lot to understanding how food it made, how much effort is involved and the craft and artistry necessary when food is made by hand.  It is very easy to throw away mass produced food because we don't attach people to it, but we don't experience the same ease when Grammy brings homemade pumpkin chocolate chip cookies.  

One of my favorite "traditions" is to go to Grant's Bakery every time I (or my kids) get a haircut. It is nearby and a great counterpoint to our regular grocery shopping (oreos etc.) to buy some homemade whoopie pies, cookies and a cake.  My wife makes fun of me because I'm so predictable, but Grant's reminds me of the little bakery next to my middle school where we would go and get a whoopie pie and a chocolate milk after school for less than a $1 each day. 

Is the cost (money and time) prohibitive? Is it possible to live this way and only eat handmade / homemade foods?  What would it do to our economy? Wouldn't this mean we'd need far more "little" bakeries and delis? Would this mean we'd be healthier? 

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I would give up TikTok. Or even social media in general. I've noticed myself becoming dependent on the dopamine that watching those short, humorous videos provide. It's almost like an addiction. I can't stop, but everything in my being is telling me to. 

I stay up late many nights because of this app. It's SO easy to lose track of time and go down a pit of Jasper the Doll or someone crushing things in a hydraulic press. I notice my schoolwork being put to the side from an accumulation of clubs and activities at school mixed with working an average of 30 hours per week. What do I do when I get home at night? I surely don't have the mental capacity to do schoolwork, so I participate in the mindless activity of scrolling on TikTok. I occasionally bring myself to delete it, but what if I don't understand some of the references people are making? Wouldn't it be embarrassing? Or is it an accomplishment to not have TikTok? I don't know. So I re-download it every time. It's exhausting. I hate myself for giving in, but I just need to learn to manage my time better and put my phone down. It's hard to put my well-being first.

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I completely understand how you are feeling. Tiktok has been embedded in our generation since our brains really started developing, and I think that our dependency is insane. You stated how you almost feel like you're missing out without it, which is completely true. TikTok is so interesting in how it sucks you right in and keeps you in this "mindless" cycle of finding what's popular. However, because TikTok is kind of catered to you and you're interested, nobody's streams are made exactly the same. So the inside jokes that form on TikTok you might not see anyways, due to differences in interest. It's so strange that we feel so entitled to make others feel "embarrassed" for not liking the same thing, but that same thing has happened for centuries with bullying for stye, fashion, trends, etc. is it really so different? 

But I also find myself victim to the late-night scrolling of TikTok, and maybe screw up my sleep schedule just a little bit (more than I would like to admit). But with our dependency of social media, we were bound to find one thing to capture our attention. 

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I think it isn't different, just evolved. People don't outright say something, or that it's embarrassing; I feel it mostly has to do with the tone of what people are saying. Of course, bullying is not what it is in the movies, I think it is more "in between the lines" per se. Fitting in has always been the social norm and tiktok spreads that norm along vast distances that are easier to access than ever.

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If I abolish one thing in society, it would be the financial burdens in life. Too often in life, people are burdened by the cost of things for simple things they can or can't control. Like how people with vision problems are financially responsible for corrective lenses, even though they didn't ask to be born with bad vision. 

I don't know how it would be done but getting rid of financial burdens to allow people to live comfortably and safely and be eligible to contribute to society would be a great gain for society. It would allow people to get further education because as of right now, which I am dealing with, paying for college is a real hassle and a burden on me and my family. Federal student aid claims to believe that my parents who are comfortable but not lavish, can pay over $20k a year for my college education in Nursing (when my mom only makes $40k a year). How are we going to allow the people who want to help save lives and nurture people to be in debt for the rest of their lives. For another example, in the US, the price of having a child is insane. They make it so expensive and people just suck it up and pay it because the world needs to continue populating or we could have a worse problem, and having a family is considered to be "normal" but not financially capable for most (some are thrown into it anyways)

I do believe this may create a strain of problems including adding to the world's debt problem, and people working at colleges and hospitals need to earn a living wage themselves, but I'm sure we could find a way if we really needed to. I personally would love to give up having looming financial burdens, because I know that my future will hopefully at least help someone. But I think it will be a long time until any actual change is formalized, even though there have been steps in the right direction with the free community college in Maine, Medicare, Medicaid, Proposed Student Debt Relief Plans, etc.

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This I feel like is such a universal one, but no one ever wants to talk about it (really talk about it) so I appreciate this. It always baffled me that things that are so incredibly out of our control, like vision, are considered things that we have to invest our money into. Especially since glasses- something so necessary- are oftentimes really over-priced because corporations take advantage of the fact that people can't avoid paying for them.

Glasses is just one example, but the more serious ones are even worse. Someone who develops cancer (whether that be genetically or because of their environment, it doesn't matter) shouldn't have to put themselves into danger because they can't afford it (think Breaking Bad). College as well is extremely expensive for little reason. Theoretically, we'd want the best and most passionate students to have the best educations, not the richer students on the basis of their income.

Free community college in Maine is a great start, but with it ending this year, it feels like we're moving backwards. When it comes to things like affordable education and universal healthcare, where do you think it's best to start? Do you think that free community college was a good investment (even if it's ending)/do you think it'll have less impact on legislation now that the free community college opportunity is ending?

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Everything you stated was so true. It does seem that these companies who produce a product so necessary seem to be the ones upping the price for a profit since they know consumers will but it anyways. 

And I also agree with how you stated how it "feels like we're moving backwards" due to the end of free community college. I think that affordable/free higher education and universal healthcare should almost be a right for humans. We did not ask to be living, but are all having to deal with it, and should have access to the same opportunities than everyone else. The idea of free college in Maine may put stress on legislation, but so did stipend checks to help families from Covid. In my opinion, if we could get the money to do that, maybe we could use some as Covid becomes less of an emergency, to invest in our future workforce. It isn't a foolproof idea, but maybe something that legislation could run with. 

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It has always struck me to be unfair that those people who were born with needs like corrective lenses, hearing aids, etc have a greater financial burden from the start.  Similarly, we preach upward mobility through education, but make it difficult for those who need it most, which means that not only are we are people start from "behind", but there's an extra barrier placed in their way.  Looking forward to my own children going to college (or not), I (on my own) make significantly more than my mother did when I was looking for colleges (I was in a one parent household) and since I'm married, I don't know what my household will qualify for in financial aid. I worry that hard decisions and discussions are in our future. 

Wes McNair, who was my college Advanced Poetry professor would rail against our college system, while working in it.  He hated the idea that he was part of saddling students with debt before they had the ability to make any money of their own.  I definitely felt the pinch.  There was a real urgency to find a job when I left college because my loans would come due.  I might have thought to explore other opportunities had this not been an issue.

What do we do to fix this? Many Scandinavian countries do much better by their citizens (in my opinion) in this area. They pay more taxes, but surveys have shown they are happy to do so because of what they get in return. 

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I agree with you that a world without all the financial burdens would be nice. Being able to do whatever brought us joy without having to worry about the cost sounds like a dream come true, but I'm not sure if it would be.

Money is a major motivator for people. If you could have everything and anything you dreamt of without the cost of a single penny then everyone would be able to do that. With that happening then people wouldn't want to work whether it's a 9 to 5 or at a hospital. Why would you work when you're able to go out and do anything you want whenever you want? Although I agree with you on the concept that things should cost less, if things cost less more people could do them, which in return would make fewer people want them.

For example say every Taylor Swift concert was free, in the beginning, I'm sure everyone would flock to them to the point there would be thousands of people. It would be less enjoyable because there would be so many people that you probably wouldn't even be able to see her. Correct me if I'm wrong but the more free concerts she has in the same area the fewer, new, they'll be so slowly that people will stop going(besides hardcore fans) because they'll lose their worth. 

 

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